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Provide input for a new Lokar throttle bracket for PF4

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  • Provide input for a new Lokar throttle bracket for PF4

    If you've installed a throttle bracket made for carb applications on your PF4, you probably discovered that the cable isn't aligned perfectly. The linkage on the PF4 TB does not extend out as far as most carbs; consequently, the cable is mis-aligned. I have a good friend who's the lead design engineer at Lokar. When he heard I had a PF4 system, he asked me to participate in the development of a throttle and kickdown bracket solution. He is sending me the 3D printed prototype (see photo) this week and I will be evaluating it and giving him feedback. This would be a great opportunity for this forum to provide input that would influence the final product. Tentative availability will be February. My application is for SBF, but any input would be applicable. I think you'll agree that it's a simple and elegant piece. Thanks in advance.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Lyle Simons; 12-11-2019, 11:40 AM.

  • #2
    I installed a PF3 system on a SBF 302 for my brother's car using the supplied throttle bracket and couldn't get a Summit branded kickdown cable to fit for a C4. Plastic cable pivot didn't have enough clearance for the secondary throttle lever if in too close or hit the fuel rail if out too far. Neither slot in the bracket allowed proper alignment of the cable. That looks like it would be the cure. I have another bracket and Lokar kickdown cable that is slightly different but don't know when I can get around to installing it. Could you ask if it's intended to also work on PF3 throttle body, or could moderators clarify if throttle body dimensions are the same for PF3 & 4?

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    • #3
      I'd love to follow this thread. I'm currently using the LOK-XTC-1000BG which has the open bearing end on it to attach to throttle body. As you've noted in your post, it has to be modified to work with the PF4 4150 style throttle bodies. What I did was use a long bolt to attach to the throttle body and then sandwich the throttle cable end between two nuts and washers. This allowed me to bring the throttle cable connection far enough away from the throttle body where it could be aligned with my FAST FST-304147 throttle cable mount set-up. The FAST is a very common two-track throttle cable mount, where the trans kickdown rides in the inner track and the throttle cable rides in the out track. Both were too far away from the PF4 throttle body. What would be cool for Lokar to develop is a universal throttle cable connection that can be adjusted from the throttle body connection point. This way it would work with various throttle cable mounts and you can maintain perfect alignment no matter how far away from the linkage you end up (within reason).

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      • #4
        Well, I don't have any input to make it better but it looks perfect to me. I have a SBF also and had to build something by cutting here and welding there. Works but will watch for the Lokar one in Feb.

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        • #5
          One thing to keep in mind is the throttle body in that pic is the old design and the new design uses a different linkage. Would probably be worth mentioning this to the designer.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Nate S View Post
            One thing to keep in mind is the throttle body in that pic is the old design and the new design uses a different linkage. Would probably be worth mentioning this to the designer.
            OK. I guess I probably have the "old" style also - even though I just purchased it a couple of months ago. I guess they'll have to have TWO designs and designate them as "old" and "new" style. Nate, what terminology do you use internally to designate each style? Just "old" and "new"?

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            • #7
              I spoke to the designer this morning and he's also looking for someone with a Chrysler/Dodge to participate in this beta test. If you're willing to provide feedback and install the 3D printed prototype, you can end up with a finished complete bracket/cable setup (valued over $150) for your troubles. PM me if you're interested.

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              • #8
                There were probably a couple thousand kits built with the old throttle body that got sent out to who knows how many warehouses or retails shops or where ever. I'm sure you could buy a new kit today and depending on where you buy it, you still have a good chance of getting the old throttle body. Doesn't matter - there's no inherent design difference between the two that makes them perform any differently. But the core architecture has changed between them and a bracket made for one may not fit the other.

                Yes, new and old is typically how we refer to them but more officially, we go by their part numbers. New is #4150 and old is #3878. If they made a bracket for the #3878 it would probably also be usable on a Pro-Flo 3 but there aren't nearly as many of those out there as there are Pro-Flo 4.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nate S View Post
                  One thing to keep in mind is the throttle body in that pic is the old design and the new design uses a different linkage. Would probably be worth mentioning this to the designer.
                  Nate, is there any way you could ensure I received the NEW style if Lokar was to purchase one to ship to me? Since it's the same part# it might be hit or miss if I simply order on-line.

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                  • #10
                    Throttle bodies have different part numbers. Also, looking at the pic, it seems like the bracket has been designed for that particular combo of throttle body and intake manifold. We have many different intake manifolds being used so I would definitely check fitment on other applications.

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                    • #11
                      I made throttle/TV cable brackets for both the old and new PF4 throttle bodies, and they are definitely different. The throttles are 1/2 inch higher in the bores and the linkage is 1/2 inch higher up from the top of the throttle body mounting flange on the newer throttle body, and the offset to the linkage from the throttle body is also slightly different. The linkages are also different. If Lokar is planning on making solid billet brackets, they need to make one for each throttle body design.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nate S View Post
                        Throttle bodies have different part numbers. Also, looking at the pic, it seems like the bracket has been designed for that particular combo of throttle body and intake manifold. We have many different intake manifolds being used so I would definitely check fitment on other applications.
                        My participation is for SBF only, so I'm just going to provide input for the old/new TB on SBF applicaton.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lyle Simons View Post
                          I spoke to the designer this morning and he's also looking for someone with a Chrysler/Dodge to participate in this beta test. If you're willing to provide feedback and install the 3D printed prototype, you can end up with a finished complete bracket/cable setup (valued over $150) for your troubles. PM me if you're interested.
                          Hi Lyle

                          Yes please please count me in. I have a Mopar 440, PF4 kit on route (4150 style) and a New Lokar Kickdown Cable waiting to be installed. The lack of the bracket following my call to Lokar made me start my own forum page LINK - you may care to have a look. Lokar will need to tell us what length 727 Kickdown lever to use.

                          A printed bracket would be great and possibly I could even get it printed here and save shipping?

                          Your photos are great because they show a bracket that will bolt to the Edelbrock PF4 throttle body (#4150 in my case) not a spacer as per the Lokar PF1 bracket.

                          Rgds

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jacbjacb View Post
                            Hi Lyle

                            Yes please please count me in. I have a Mopar 440, PF4 kit on route (4150 style) and a New Lokar Kickdown Cable waiting to be installed. The lack of the bracket following my call to Lokar made me start my own forum page LINK - you may care to have a look. Lokar will need to tell us what length 727 Kickdown lever to use.

                            A printed bracket would be great and possibly I could even get it printed here and save shipping?

                            Your photos are great because they show a bracket that will bolt to the Edelbrock PF4 throttle body (#4150 in my case) not a spacer as per the Lokar PF1 bracket.

                            Rgds
                            PM me your email and I'll forward it to the Lokar engineer I'm working with.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nate S View Post
                              There were probably a couple thousand kits built with the old throttle body that got sent out to who knows how many warehouses or retails shops or where ever. I'm sure you could buy a new kit today and depending on where you buy it, you still have a good chance of getting the old throttle body. Doesn't matter - there's no inherent design difference between the two that makes them perform any differently. But the core architecture has changed between them and a bracket made for one may not fit the other.

                              Yes, new and old is typically how we refer to them but more officially, we go by their part numbers. New is #4150 and old is #3878. If they made a bracket for the #3878 it would probably also be usable on a Pro-Flo 3 but there aren't nearly as many of those out there as there are Pro-Flo 4.
                              I beleive that this shows the difference in the throttle levers:

                              New #4150 Delphi/GM IAC ...”affordably priced replacement for throttle body #3878“
                              DF3A4C0A-2795-4E58-BA5A-E995BAC5F3C2.jpeg
                              Old #3878 Delphi/GM IAC
                              image_2349.jpg
                              Not sure about this one - #38783 ? Hitachi IAC
                              IMG_3147.PNG

                              Are all these throttle Body's the same height? Do they all fit the same air filter base?

                              What a bore this New #4150 & Old #3878 TB issue is. I purchased a new PR4 Mopar BB (4150 Style) from Summit Racing on the 4th Dec 2019 and it has the old style throttle body! It seems to have a CNC not cast top surface ..... but who likes paying for new, old stock!
                              Last edited by Jacbjacb; 12-16-2019, 08:18 AM.

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